Curse

Symbol · Oct 30, 2008, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Well, it has no interrupts and no movement control besides bull's (which is less likely to trigger on splits). Just running away and not eating bull's really limits its effectiveness. But, combined with a reliable snare, it will clearly outdamage other templates.

It's not like a slow adrenal interrupt like dchop is that impressive on a split--unless you get lucky you're not going to get anything important. And shock isn't exactly strong movement control. Maybe it's worse than a hammer guy, it's definitely better than a standard axe template.

dies like fish · Oct 30, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

It's not like a slow adrenal interrupt like dchop is that impressive on a split--unless you get lucky you're not going to get anything important. And shock isn't exactly strong movement control. Maybe it's worse than a hammer guy, it's definitely better than a standard axe template.

It's extremely easy to time a Dchop off of a knockdown. Bull's Strike-> Shock-> Dchop is really strong.

Seamus Finn · Oct 30, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

It's not like a slow adrenal interrupt like dchop is that impressive on a split--unless you get lucky you're not going to get anything important. And shock isn't exactly strong movement control. Maybe it's worse than a hammer guy, it's definitely better than a standard axe template.

Shock is a warrior's best commonly slotted skill for splits bar none. Shock axe has become less popular though. The other comments about utility really don't mean a whole lot. Warriors generally don't split off on their own, especially these days where they carry more damage and less survivability than they used to. So outside of maybe pushing a flagger a bit, a warrior will almost always be accompanied by at least a ranger, who is obviously packing interrupts. The warrior's job is ultimately to put damage and kds on a target and kill it; the WE guy does that quite well. Its also worth pointing out that there are more than just axe that con be run effectively with WE if you are worried about only having bullstrike for kds(which with all the conjure warriors out there doesn't seem to be bothering many).

Ciric · Oct 30, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Like Echo said, the WE bars only really shine in the fact that they can spike every 3 seconds and are able to keep up with the ED rangers spike speed. A typical Evis war will out damage a WE by far in a spike, +30 for Evis, Exo = Power Attack, and + 20 for Agonizing, and not to mention a potential + 15 x3 for conjure. You will come out with approx 100 damage more depending on if you're running a minor or major and if your conjure is up.

nerf ED

Byron · Oct 31, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Warriors generally don't split off on their own, especially these days where they carry more damage and less survivability than they used to. So outside of maybe pushing a flagger a bit, a warrior will almost always be accompanied by at least a ranger, who is obviously packing interrupts.

True enough. I still don't like WE. So there!

Symbol · Oct 31, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

How can you not like a build where you run around blowing up people with power attack? Who would have seen that coming two years ago?

Kyp Jade · Oct 31, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

sad thing is, WE bars can use mending, and still perform well

power attack AND mending!!!

Michael805 · Nov 01, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

sad thing is, WE bars can use mending, and still perform well

power attack AND mending!!!

Can't use healing hands though.

Riotgear · Nov 02, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

How can you not like a build where you run around blowing up people with power attack? Who would have seen that coming two years ago?

Kind of like you'd never have seen people complaining about Wail of Doom, Expert's Dexterity, and Otyugh's Cry either.

Symbol · Nov 02, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Kind of like you'd never have seen people complaining about Otyugh's Cry either.

There, fixed that for you.

DarkNecrid · Nov 02, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Nah his post was correct man, the old WoD and ED were shit. Hell, I don't even remember what Expert's Dexterity did before they changed the functionality, it was that bad.

Krill · Nov 02, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Nah his post was correct man, the old WoD and ED were shit. Hell, I don't even remember what Expert's Dexterity did before they changed the functionality, it was that bad.

The old WoD was hilarious in AB & RA. It might have seen some play in higher level formats if curses necros were not so terrible in balanced before FF and plague sending changed and well, frankly there were more spam friendly defense options at the time.

ED made your attack skills recharge faster but they cost like twice as much, so yeah it was totally useless.

shoogi · Nov 02, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

It ain't much of a surprise, Izzy insisted so much on buffing Power Attack, it would have found its way to warrior bars eventually anyway.

nerf n/a please

Burton2000 · Nov 02, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I've heard they are nerfing the blood spam build as well as turret rangers. They are also going to buff midline defence options apparantly, not sure wether this is all true but it would seem so.

DarkNecrid · Nov 04, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

I would hate to see even more defense get a buff. (and I'll believe it when I see it on turret rangers getting nerfed.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

It ain't much of a surprise, Izzy insisted so much on buffing Power Attack, it would have found its way to warrior bars eventually anyway.

nerf n/a please

Eh, he only buffed [Power Attack] once, and only by 10 damage. I'd like it a lot more if it did less damage but had some utility to it (straight up damage skills are boring), not that it's an issue at all. The only thing I don't get about Izzy is he is completely stubborn about buffing retarded stuff. Like he made Knee Cutter to buff Hamstring and wanted to make Hamstring viable, and wanted to make Signet Warriors viable with Symbolic Strike, and wanted to make Smite Monks more viable with Smiter's Boon, and wanted to make Assassin Casters viable for lord knows why, and...

God_Hand · Nov 04, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by druggedchimp

Skills that need fixing? Look no further than the Paragon's Motivation line.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Motivation

Paras are dieing out because this line is severely lacking in usefulness.

I completely agree here, although I'd say the problem extends into the Command and Leadership lines as well, to some degree.

The only Motivation skill I can even see being slightly useful is "It's just a flesh wound.", and even that takes an elite.

The only reason anyone uses the Command line is typically for "Go for the eyes!" That said, Paragon is by far more useful as a secondary for Warrior or Ranger with an Energy spear attack or two, and some Adren spear attacks, and an IAS.

Biggest problems Paragons have:
Condition spam
Hex spam
Opponents who block a lot
Not having blocking themselves
Terrible self-healing
Lack of good IMS
25 energy IAS
(Most of these are only a factor in RA)

The only good way for Paragons to get rid of conditions is through the elite chant Song of Purification. Other than this, they must use Remedy Sig, a Signet-Activated Chant, an elite conditional other-ally shout, or a skill which uses other shouts or chants to remove conditions.

Also, their self-heals (Leader's Comfort / Signet of Synergy / Party-Wide-Heal-For-Around-50-HP-One-Time-If-You-Do-A-Very-Specific-Action Chants) are pretty much worthless with their huge recharge & low healing, they have no way to reliably get rid of hexes (an 8-adren chant that removes a hex on spell use), no way to reduce damage to themselves any further than shields, must rely on an elite 25 second recharge shout to block, which ends on an attack skill, and they have only a conditional spear attack or a chant for interrupt.

All this comes down to is that Paragons have to cover as many of these weaknesses as they can with their secondary, or become, basically, Spear Masters focused on damage & conditions while ignoring their weaknesses (typically leading to death), and that, as I mentioned, is best left to another primary profession for more damage with Strength or Exp based IAS.

With the exception of Spear Mastery, Paragons, in general, are not good.

Burton2000 · Nov 04, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

With the exception of Spear Mastery, Paragons, in general, are not good.

Neither are assassins and it would be nice if it stayed that way.

DarkNecrid · Nov 05, 2008, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

With the exception of Spear Mastery, Paragons, in general, are not good.

Well then, it looks like Spear Mastery needs some fixing indeed.

Productivity · Nov 05, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

With the exception of Spear Mastery, Paragons, in general, are not good.

Which is exactly where they need to stay.

Teh Jace · Nov 05, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I have just uninstalled Warhammer online. It was one of the worst pvp experience I have ever had.
Imagine AoE icy shackles with instant cast and no energy cost, fireball hitting for 1k dmg and monks with healing breeze and mending as their only tools.

Jesus I am so glad I can fight beastmasters and hexshitters in gw again. Compared to warhammer gw has no balance issues at all. I will never say a single bad word about izzy again and will carry his photo in my wallet forever.